When is it legally self defense?

[simpleton]

Lets say some asshole is picking on you in the street. When are you legally using self defense? Does the law draw a line somewhere? Does he actually have to punch you first?

Usually, when two guys are angry and about to fight, they get up real close to each other for a staredown. Whoever initiates contact is the one who "started" the fight. Anyone who trains knows this is stupid. You should stand at a distance so that you can protect yourself and be ready to use your techniques.

But, if you're standing at a distance and you move in on him, then how is it self-defense? If you hurt him and the two of you go to court, will it hold up in court that you were defending yourself? Or do you need to wait for him to try to do something to you first?

[jagcorps_esq]

It is legally self defense when there is a credible threat to your personal safety. Sure, you can initiate the contact, but that can be a hard sell.

Some verbally threatening you and physically challenging you is usually enough. The argument "Should I have waited for him to hit me?" is very compelling.

The real issue in self defense is knowing when to stop. People think that once things have started they can do what they want. You really have to be careful and make sure that all actions only go far enough to protect yourself. If you can get away, do so.

[simpleton]

well lets say you got his back. you lock in a rnc for a split second and let just decide to let him go because you don't want to escalate the situation further. in this situation, the guy will most likely think that he escaped! he's just going to get pissed off that you tried to choke him and try to come after you harder.

the same thing goes with a triangle or arm bar. if he's just some punk who doesn't train, he's going to think that he escaped instead of recognizing that you let him go. then he'll come at you some more, so you have to finish the submission. but if you do, then it looks like you took it too far.

on the other hand, waiting for him to hit you first is always dangerous no matter who it is. anyone can just throw a sucker punch and knock you out if you're not defending.

[veggie530]

This is a blurry line.

In California it is illegal to merely challenge someone to a fight. If you verbally challenge someone to a fight...you're guilty of a crime and the ensuing fight is also a crime that you instigated, probably a battery charge.

So there are important things to remember, legally speaking, about self defense.

1.) Never challenge someone to a fight. Never instigate or initiate a possible weaponless combat situation just because you get angry or something -- protect yourself in two ways: by controlling yourself and defending against imminent danger.

2.) While you don't need to wait for someone to strike you, you can initiate contact once they are within range of striking. Personally, if someone were to get within kicking range of me, I would kick and probably go for a takedown to submit (if it's 1 on 1). The basic thing is: Do NOT advance on someone. If you advance into striking distance yourself, you can be liable. If they advance on you, and you followed step #1, then you've done nothing to provoke them getting in your space. You've done nothing wrong! This shows that you've taken adequate steps to not initiate or provoke any sort of conflict.

3.) If and when the police are called, it is up to you and the other person(s) to decide whether or not you want to press charges. If you do, he will, and vice verse. It is best to try to not seriously hurt the person (other than their pride and maybe some facial wounds that are superficial), that way it doesn't come to this. Self defense or not, if they press a charge, you're going to jail for some amount of time until you can post bail and then you will have to defend yourself in court.

4.) If you do seriously hurt someone you need to tell the police that it was what you needed to do to protect yourself. If you armbarred someone and broke their arm, you need to tell police that you asked the person to stop resisting and you'd let go and they refused or responded but continuing to attack, etc... let the police know that you were only going as far as you needed to in order to protect yourself.

If you triangle someone and then start raining punches on them from on top while they're trapped, and there are witnesses, you're going to be in a bad situation. Don't use excessive force -- the best rule is to use the force you think is needed to protect yourself, but don't exceed it to a point where you're going to unnecessarily maim the person.

In California, if you rip off someones ear, break their leg (let's say you do a very nasty kneebar?) and maim them in some sort of permanent way, you can be charged with Mayhem -- a felony! It's very important to not exceed what you need for SELF DEFENSE. If the guy is mugging you, he won't be calling the cops anyway. If it's a punk who wants to be a ***hole, then the cops are more than likely going to be involved because someone will be calling.

Most importantly is to keep a professional, calm composure during any physical altercation. You don't want witnesses telling the police about the raving lunatic who ripped off his shirt and starting screaming obsceneties before doing a flying arm bar and breaking the other guys arm. This isn't the WWE -- the crowd isn't there to rile up!

Anyway, I hope this book helps, lol. I'm a criminal law student in California and I've used a chapter out of my book dedicated to Assault and Battery to reference some of these things.

P.S.: In a lot of states (dunno about all) you can also defend other people from assailants attempting battery/assault. But in this case, more than ever, you must be careful about how much force you use. Only use the amount of force you think you'd need to use in a normal circumstance -- unarmed combat with someone your size means facial lacerations and a broken nose is probably acceptable, but a broken arm and unconcious person probably is not, lol.

Common sense goes a long ways.

[simpleton]

wow thanks man! that clears it up. just goes to show bjj isn't just for brutes.

you still have to decide whether he's approaching you for the usual stare down or he's approaching you to attack. if his intent was to come in for a stare down, but you take him down immediately, later he'll say you started the fight and attacked him.

[mike8]

For me , we call it legal when you are protecting yourself to the bad happenings. And also you save life of other other people.

[simpleton]

where are you located? it's one thing to act in self defense, but it's a totally different thing when you have to prove it in court.